Our incoming and outgoing Board co-chairs in conversation

DDPI Worldwide (formerly DDPI) has undergone a great deal of change over the last 5 years. None of it could have been achieved without the hard work and dedication of the volunteers who make up almost the entire leadership team, including our Board of Directors. 

Benjamin Hargrave has been a Board co-chair since 2023, and was joined by Michelle Hogeterp in 2024. He is an independent Therapeutic Social Worker, Practitioner, Consultant and Trainer in DDP working from Poland and the UK. This year Benjamin is passing the co-chair baton to Billy Smythe, Clinical Psychologist, DDP Practitioner, Consultant and Trainer in the UK, and former DDPI Board member and DDP Connects UK Director. 

Benjamin and Billy recently sat down to reflect upon the handover, what they are proud of, excited about, the challenges faced and how the organisation can continue to move forward with our global community.

Benjamin Hargrave 

Hi Billy, so here we are in our changeover. We wanted to have a conversation to share with our community and I’d like to start with some points of pride and celebration.

Many reading this won’t know much about the inside history of DDP, its institutions and its structures. I remember back to when I was a fresh practitioner, assuming that there was a fairly developed organisation running everything behind the scenes.

What I’ve come to understand, in relation to other organisations like ours, is that it’s rarely like that when profit isn’t the main driver. What has driven our community is belief, passion, commitment and grit and I guess I’ve needed that being co-chair, chair and then co-chair again of DDPI Worldwide.

I am very proud that through some difficult times, this Board has grown the structure and the income of the organisation while also centring racial equity and social justice which has been a core commitment.

I’m wondering what it has been like for you, as an established member of the DDP community, a previous board member and a trainer during the last couple of years. What have you noticed and felt and has that changed since you started finding out more about the new board and how it has been running?

Billy Smythe 

I’m so glad you kicked things off by reflecting on what you’re proud of, because it would be easy to overlook just how incredible the work you and the Board have done since 2023 is.

I get that thing about people assuming there’s this slick, well-oiled DDP machine working away in the background. I remember feeling the same when I first joined the Board back in 2020 too. But the same as you, I quickly realised, DDP has grown fast. It’s inspired so many people, and taken off at a pace where the systems and structures have often needed to play catch-up. For a long time it was held together by passionate people showing up voluntarily, bringing care, skills, and heart to help slow things down a bit, to steer the course, and keep things moving in a way that stays true to DDP’s essence, while also evolving and rising to the challenges that come with growth. The work that the operations team have done over the years has also been amazing.  

You stepped into the co-chair role at such a pivotal moment Ben, right after DDPI hit a crossroads. With Betty and then Courtney’s chairing, came much-needed commitment to racial justice and equity. I can only imagine how intense and challenging that must have been for you and the Board who came together and then took this forward, especially with so much of that work still in its early stages.

But Ben, what’s been clear all along is how you’ve led the board with such warmth, humour, and determined strength. You and the board, alongside the committees, have helped DDPI Worldwide grow real structures, real sustainability, and now the capacity to bring on an Executive Director. That’s huge. And on top of all that, you’ve kept staying grounded in the values and integrity of the model as it continues to grow. I definitely felt that energy at the Nottingham conference in 2024, it was buzzing. There was such a strong sense of welcome and of a community moving forward together. That makes me excited to be stepping back into the Board and to be taking on the co-chairing with Michelle.

So now, as you are about to take a very well-deserved break from holding all things DDP in your head, when you think about all your time with DDPI what makes you smile?

Benjamin Hargrave 

What makes me smile is probably quite an easy question to answer, it’s the relationships I have grown with people and knowing people. I’m happy that the structures and the finances have grown but for me, that very DDPish thing of enjoying people’s company and being with them as we talk is the biggest grin-giver.

The bit which is more complicated, is that the smiles are not all about memories of joy and easy going stuff. Part of what makes me smile is the knowledge that I and much of our community have been through an important but hard journey of work. My own pain and the guilt of knowing I caused pain to other people as I blundered along in my racial equity work was never something I anticipated. It caused me many nights of worry – unable to sleep, waking up and reading, writing, listening and watching to start to soothe that part of me which knew I had no clue what I was facing. I saw that worry and pain on other people’s faces and, although it feels strange to say it, I was pleased and relieved to see the pain and confusion and shame and anger that people came with. It meant they were growing and that growth makes me smile. We made ourselves a little safer for people different from us each time we faced our own internal struggles, realising that there was racism, ableism, homophobia, classism, and all the rest of it inside us. As we started to name our biases without it triggering a belief that it must mean we were bad people, it set us free to do that work more fluidly.

There may well be more sleepless nights to come. We are not and never will be a perfect community but I do believe we have changed already and that we are, as a community, committed to this shift.

I don’t want this to suggest that we have arrived, I don’t think there is an arrival. Every one of us is at a different point on many roads to equity and recognition of our own baggage. Some ahead and some barely have a toe along that road. Some of these things are contradictory and will cause arguments, disagreements and fall-outs. But I do not want us to be paralysed by that. We have worked hard to avoid being paralysed by a desire to ‘get it right’, knowing that the process of moving towards a better fit starts (most often) with an imperfect try. DDP is all about that – we talk ‘for’ or ‘about’ or ‘with’ knowing that it might not be perfect but will set us on a better path than not trying to make sense of what is in front of us.

Billy Smythe 

Thanks Ben for your honesty, I think you are right about the risk of being frozen into inaction or becoming stuck when it comes to the social justice and equality work – there is still so much to do to translate and thread this deeply through all DDP spaces, resources and experiences. Personally, I’m still learning and I recognise I’ve got more to do and in more consistent ways. It feels so important for the Board to be in a place where we can acknowledge that this is challenging work that it will sometimes inevitably feel incredibly hard and uncomfortable, as you just described – but it is a total necessity and I am absolutely committed to this continued priority. 

For the next few months I think I will be trying to get to know my colleagues on the Board and spending time with our new Executive Director, Professor Erica Myers-Davis, who I am looking forward to working with. There’s a lot for me to understand and appreciate and even though I have been in and around the world of DDP for a while – and I hope I have things to offer – there does feel a lot to learn. For example, there is so much work going on behind the scenes in committees. Personally, I feel it’s so important that board members are able to hold a truly global and culturally nuanced perspective on DDP and the communities we serve and is an area I want to work on. I will try and save some PACE-fulness for myself as I go about this; all of us are juggling our DDP roles with work and family life and I’m sure I will need to remind myself about slowing down to get there faster, that we are all good people doing the best we can!  

My hope for DDP over the coming years is that it can continue to grow, stretch, reach and connect with people around the world whilst maintaining its integrity and relational soul. I think a big part of the Board work is ensuring that there are solid and sustainable foundations for this to happen and that parts of the world where DDP is developing are supported. I am also really looking forward to the results of the RIGHT randomised control trial of DDP therapy and what this brings for the evidence-base for DDP. This has been years in the making! I would also love to see developments in pathways for training and skills development spreading across the DDP practice model. The systemic framework that supports DDP to come to life and make a meaningful difference both in, but also very much outside of the therapy room is very close to my heart and is, in my view, one of the key things that sets DDP apart. 

So it is time to sign off Ben, I know just how much your time on the Board has meant to you. Any final reflections or words you would like to share? 

Benjamin Hargrave 

I would just offer this. I trust that you and Michelle will continue to hold our community and the board space with warmth and firm, fair-mindedness. We don’t need, will never achieve and shouldn’t be aiming for perfection but what we should aim for, and can achieve, is connection and integrity. I cannot wait to stand back and see you step into the next phase of the board with your Billy-shaped connection and integrity, just as you have already begun to do.